OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Foro especial de urgencia donde trataremos todos los temas relacionados con la "UVI" en la que tenemos instalado a nuestro Rayito. Ideas de los aficionados, propuestas consensuadas por el Gabinete de Crisis de nuestra Afición Unida y mensajes de ánimo podrán tener cabida aquí.

Moderadores: OsKar, Planeta Rayista, DAVID CIRCO, Maga, GELO

OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Lun Nov 16, 2015 5:16 am

I live in Oklahoma City. I am a supporter of Energy FC, the existing, established team in Oklahoma City (www.energyfc.com).

I am a member of The Grid, Energy FC's independent supporters group (www.thegridokc.org).

I have a great understanding of the local market and soccer culture. I'd love to help answer any questions you have about Oklahoma City and the challenges that Rayo OKC faces. I am opposed to them announcing a team in Oklahoma City. We are a relatively small market. College Football is the overwhelming dominant sport (University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State University), followed by Oklahoma City Thunder (NBA Team).

Over the past five days I have met some amazing Rayo Vallecano supporters through Twitter. I have enjoyed researching and learning about Vallecas, your supporter culture, history and current frustrations with Raul Martin Presa. Many supporters have found value in my relationship as I can provide you (forward) U.S. articles and opinion blogs as they're published and distributed. I also understand the economics and business model of OKC Rayo, which is similar to Energy FC.

I am so impressed with the creativity and resourcefulness displayed by your supporters. I am saddened to learn that Presa has enforced policies that is threatening supporter traditions, tactics and displays. I understand that Barcelona and Real Madrid almost have no organized supporter groups -- this is almost unbelievable.

In Oklahoma City, The Grid is very committed to growing soccer supporter culture. We have a responsibility to grow a culture as unique and diverse as our city's population and heritage. We do not discriminate against race, sex, sexual preference, economic status, or knowledge level. We embrace all new supporters and are committed to growing soccer in Oklahoma City. We are very protective of Energy FC and are not happy that Rayo OKC formed -- their marketing and business tactics aim to damage and undermine Energy FC. The North American Soccer League (NASL), like the United Soccer Leagues (USL), is a private league. There is no relegation or promotion. Energy FC and Rayo OKC will never play one another -- we're not on the same 'table.' Unfortunately, Energy FC ownership, management, fans and supporters want Rayo OKC to fail.

The market is not big enough to ensure that both clubs can achieve profitability (positive cash flows). Knowledgeable soccer fans (who understand european soccer) believe that Energy FC has the ownership team that can afford a 14,000+ capacity soccer specific stadium, that can, more importantly, be built downtown. Rayo OKC has greatly complicated the city politics within the city. Taxpayer money, and issued municipal bonds, are needed to build the most competitive soccer stadium complex. Now politicians are going to have to see which club fails before they endorse a team to include in a bond package.

Am I safe to share my feelings and additional evidence about the challenges Rayo OKC faces? How many Rayo Vallecano employees and front office staff view these message boards?

#onevoiceonecity #ADRV
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Lun Nov 16, 2015 5:39 am

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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Lun Nov 16, 2015 5:46 am

What is the preferred outcome that most Rayo Vallecano supporters want (desire)? I understand that some subscribers feel that the transaction was not properly authorized.

Do most supporters accept that Presa has already paid the initial investment and that their is no hope to recoup the initial investment? What pressures can supporters apply when Rayo OKC requires additional investment, which is very likely in the first 12 months? I can go into greater detail about business challenges Rayo OKC faces if you'd like me to.

I'm curious what demands or requests supporters will make at the Nov. 29th home match.
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Lun Nov 16, 2015 11:06 pm

http://itools.com/tool/google-translate ... translator

The above link will translate english articles to spanish.
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor Joakin » Lun Nov 16, 2015 11:08 pm

OKC Supporter escribió:What is the preferred outcome that most Rayo Vallecano supporters want (desire)? I understand that some subscribers feel that the transaction was not properly authorized.

Do most supporters accept that Presa has already paid the initial investment and that their is no hope to recoup the initial investment? What pressures can supporters apply when Rayo OKC requires additional investment, which is very likely in the first 12 months? I can go into greater detail about business challenges Rayo OKC faces if you'd like me to.

I'm curious what demands or requests supporters will make at the Nov. 29th home match.


Hi,
We have come across with the news of Martin Presa's adquisition of OKC with great surprise as the club has carried out the operation in complete secrecy.
So far, most of reactions of the supporters have only taken place in internet and social networks. Actually, I would say that the vast majority of the supporters are not informed of this issue yet.
The few of us who know it, are showing our concerns about the viability and the consequences for the economy of Rayo Vallecano. Our club is a very humble team which has endured serious economical difficulties in recent years, and the least we want is to repeat that.

Thank you for your point of view, it's very useful taking into account that US soccer it's a great unknown for most of the people here in Spain.
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor Maga » Mar Nov 17, 2015 1:37 am

Hello and welcome, OCK Supporter! Thanks a lot for your comments. I'm 100% agree with Joakin's response... This business is very extrange for majority of us, I don't understand anything of this opaque operation... :?
:arrow: Porque defendemos los intereses de los rayistas como tú, hazte socio de la Plataforma ADRV
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#laaficionexigerespeto - #SalvemosAlRayoFemenino ¡FIRMA AQUÍ!
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor seguidor » Mar Nov 17, 2015 2:57 am

For OKC supporter:

I'd like to understand if this operation is already ended, because here in Madrid almost No one knows anything about that. Rayo Vallecano is a private team( Presa is the owner) and we are only supporters, nothing more. Of course, a team without supporters is nothing. It looks like the operation is a big secret and I do not know why.

We do not know anything about soccer league in Usa but I have been in Oklahoma and I do not think soccer is very representative over there. On the other hand, as you say, two teams in your city would not be profitable. So, what is the interest in this operation? Presa lies?

Regards.
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Mar Nov 17, 2015 5:32 am

Thank you for the warm welcome!

I am glad to answer any and all questions the best that I can.

We do not know anything about soccer league in Usa but I have been in Oklahoma and I do not think soccer is very representative over there. On the other hand, as you say, two teams in your city would not be profitable. So, what is the interest in this operation? Presa lies?


It will be very difficult for OKC Rayo to achieve profitability in the short-term (see below reasons).

(1) Flawed Business Model

The NASL is a more costly business model than USL (http://www.uslsoccer.com) independent teams such as Energy FC (@energyfc), Tulsa Roughnecks, Sacramento Republic FC and Louisville City FC. NASL teams face very expensive travel costs, especially OKC Rayo, as teams are spread out across Canada, Eastern U.S., Florida and Puerto Rico. There are no teams in the Central U.S. and the West coast (http://www.nasl.com/teams). The increased travel costs plus player salaries that are usually higher than USL teams force NASL teams to charge higher season ticket prices (logically) to break even (or achieve profitability).

With the above information you would imagine that Rayo OKC's season tickets would be much higher than Energy FC's, right? Well, they're not. They're way less (head scratcher!?!?).

For a premium, seat-back seat at midfield, Rayo OKC is charging $510; Energy FC is charging $600. For a seat on the penalty box line (18 yard box), Rayo OKC charges $243; Energy FC is charging $375.

RayoOKC Season Tickets: http://www.rayookc.com/season-tickets
Energy FC Season Tickets: http://www.energyfc.com/2016-taft-stadium-seating-map/

In addition, Yukon Stadium (where Rayo OKC will play) only seats 6,000; where Taft Stadium (where Energy FC plays) seats 7,500. Advantage Energy FC. What's crazy to consider is that Energy FC averaged 4,650 fans per game and still did not achieve profitability in 2015. Remind me again, how can Rayo OKC possibly sell cheaper tickets with fewer seats and still achieve profitability?

How is Rayo OKC going to make up this large revenue gap? It has more expenses to cover, right? The next best opportunity to make up revenue is in corporate sponsorships. This is where Rayo OKC is really in trouble.

Oklahoma businesses prefer to invest locally and invest in ways that benefit their customers and employees. Rayo OKC having a majority foreign owner will not be appealing. Very few Oklahoma businesses have customers in Spain where goodwill and additional brand visibility could be obtained.

In addition to the challenges around sponsoring a 'foreign' business, Rayo OKC did not create a brand and identity that reflects the history and preferences of the residents in Oklahoma City and Yukon. Simply copying Rayo Vallecano's branding is unoriginal in context to the community of Oklahoma City. From a merchandising standpoint, American consumers are use to more progressive looking logos; logos that they feel are stylish and not too distracting (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/best-lo ... on-bullets).

Generally speaking, NASL and USL clubs need to monetize sponsorships fully to have a great shot at achieving break-even. There is no TV revenue in the NASL or USL. To date, since November 10, 2015, Rayo OKC has announced zero (0) sponsors!!! Not a great start. The season starts in February 2016.

(2) Competitive Advantages of Energy FC

Locally, Energy FC has many unique advantages (see the below list). To date, Rayo OKC's marketing strategy is to promote their product as a more 'premier' level of soccer; a higher grade of professional soccer. That's it. Their whole marketing strategy is to undermine (or insult) Energy FC. In all reality, NASL quality of play is not better than USL. In May 2015, during the U.S. Open Cup, USL teams beat NASL teams 7-0 (http://goo.gl/QuMTkg).

    - Two (2) year head start
    - More profitable business model (cheaper travel, player salaries, etc...)
    - Soccer specific FIFA grade playing surface (pitch)(https://goo.gl/XA1Zhf)
    - 7,500 capacity stadium 5 miles northwest of downtown
    - Rivalries ('derbies') with Tulsa, St. Louis, Louisville, Kansas City...
    - In-state derby with Tulsa Roughnecks (Black Gold Derby)
    - Established supporter group (http://www.thegridokc.org)
    - Coming off a season that ended in the USL western conf. finals (https://goo.gl/HLZd1u)
    - Stability in coaching / general manager
    - Committed, renewed sponsors
    - Beloved hispanic players with mexican heritages.
    - Considered a top-tier USL club (well-managed)
    - Better schedule, in Spring and Summer (doesn't compete with College Football and NBA team)

(3) Supporter Culture of Energy FC Supporters

Energy FC supporters, who are members of The Grid (@thegridokc), are very loyal to Energy FC. Our members are very knowledgeable, passionate soccer fans, and follow many of the teams in the EPL, Champions League, La Liga and MLS. Our members take pride in painting tifos, singing chants, traveling on buses to Tulsa, and watching european soccer together on Saturday mornings. We've been very successful the past two years creating new traditions inside the stadium. We have a great relationship with the front office and ownership of Energy FC. In 2016, ownership has allowed The Grid to broker (or sell) season tickets and discounted individual game tickets in the supporter section on behalf of the club (http://www.thegridokc.org/shop/). The Grid gets to keep a % of ticket sales to help finance tailgates, tifos, drums, flags, etc... We're very happy and ready to grow by 100% in 2016. We want to fill the stands behind the north goal (550 seats).

The City of Yukon is a suburb and is primarily an affluent and middle class community. There is not a large population of young adults (25 - 35 year olds) near Miller Stadium. It's mostly young families, farmers and large home owners. To put it nicely, soccer fans in OKC do not want to drive to Yukon which is 15 miles (20 minute drive) west of downtown. Considering that many fans prefer to drink beer during soccer matches, many fans will not want to attend to avoid driving long distances under the influence of alcohol.

(4) Disgruntled Rayo Vallecano Supporters

Local media and social media is beginning to pick up on the frustrations that Rayo Vallecano supporters (rayistas) have with Raul Martin Presa ('Presa'). Skepticism is growing about the financial solvency of Rayo Vallecano, especially if the club is relegated from the premier division. There is doubt that Presa will choose not to fund future capital calls (secondary investments) for Rayo OKC due to the conflict and pressures created in Vallecas by supporters.

The business community (sponsors) and citizens of Oklahoma City ('OKC') will be disappointed to learn of the way your women's soccer team has been managed and treated (https://goo.gl/vNvUsr). Women's rights (equal pay) are very important issues in the U.S. Considering that Sold Out Strategies and Sean Jones also manage a professional women's soccer club (http://www.oklahomacityfc.com/), it's very appauling that they would approve the decision to work with a club that does not support its women soccer players fairly.

SUMMARY - MY PERSONAL OPINIONS

a. Sold Out Strategies aggressively sold the investment to Raul Martin Presa due to a desire to satisfy personal grudges against the ownership of Energy FC (http://goo.gl/asUuT0).
b. Sold Out Strategies was not getting paid management fees prior to the announcement of Rayo OKC. Now that a team is officially entered into the league (NASL) and capitalized with investment, Sold Out Strategies can now get paid.
c. Rayo OKC has intentions to undercut Energy FC and flood the market with cheap tickets and sponsorships to gain more fans and corporate relationships.
d. Rayo OKC will not be profitable because the market is too small; not enough fans to create large audiences.
e. Rayo OKC will require many rounds of additional investment in order to afford top quality coaches, players, youth academies and facilities.
f. Rayo OKC will relocate to a different city in 2017, if it has not already shut down.
g. I will be very surprised if Rayo OKC takes the pitch by Feb. 2016. They have not announced a coach, player signings, sponsors, or attracted loyal supporters. If announcements are not made soon, fans will not be confident enough to place season ticket deposits and purchase merchandise before the season actually starts.

#onevoiceonecity #ADRV
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Mar Nov 17, 2015 7:08 am

In Oklahoma, the hashtag (or slogan) of OKC Energy FC is #useyourenergy.

It would make a wonderful marketing stunt if @plataformaADRV members incorporated #useyourenergy into #presaveteya tweets and social media posts. It would be very disrespectful to Raul Martin Presa.

I can work with @TheGridOKC members to incorporate #presavetaya hashtags into tweets protesting @RayoOKC. This could make for much excitement on Nov. 29th when the Lighting play Athletic Bilbao. We can show U.S. soccer media how supporter culture crosses cultural and language barriers. In line with rayistas' belief that soccer is a platform, let's use our relationship as a platform to carry our messages further (#useyourenergy & #presaveteya).
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor gavilan87 » Mar Nov 17, 2015 12:07 pm

I am totally opposed to any initiative which could harm the interests of my team, despite disagreeing with the actions taken by Martin Presa. An unsuccessful project for RayoOKC will have a direct (economic) impact on our team in Spain.


OKC Supporter escribió:In Oklahoma, the hashtag (or slogan) of OKC Energy FC is #useyourenergy.

It would make a wonderful marketing stunt if @plataformaADRV members incorporated #useyourenergy into #presaveteya tweets and social media posts. It would be very disrespectful to Raul Martin Presa.

I can work with @TheGridOKC members to incorporate #presavetaya hashtags into tweets protesting @RayoOKC. This could make for much excitement on Nov. 29th when the Lighting play Athletic Bilbao. We can show U.S. soccer media how supporter culture crosses cultural and language barriers. In line with rayistas' belief that soccer is a platform, let's use our relationship as a platform to carry our messages further (#useyourenergy & #presaveteya).
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Mar Nov 17, 2015 5:18 pm

gavilan87 escribió:I am totally opposed to any initiative which could harm the interests of my team, despite disagreeing with the actions taken by Martin Presa. An unsuccessful project for RayoOKC will have a direct (economic) impact on our team in Spain.


OKC Supporter escribió:In Oklahoma, the hashtag (or slogan) of OKC Energy FC is #useyourenergy.

It would make a wonderful marketing stunt if @plataformaADRV members incorporated #useyourenergy into #presaveteya tweets and social media posts. It would be very disrespectful to Raul Martin Presa.

I can work with @TheGridOKC members to incorporate #presavetaya hashtags into tweets protesting @RayoOKC. This could make for much excitement on Nov. 29th when the Lighting play Athletic Bilbao. We can show U.S. soccer media how supporter culture crosses cultural and language barriers. In line with rayistas' belief that soccer is a platform, let's use our relationship as a platform to carry our messages further (#useyourenergy & #presaveteya).


I understand. I apologize that I offended you. I have not communicated with other The Grid members on any planned, or coordinated, marketing efforts that aim to disrupt Rayo OKC's business and sales efforts.

Individually; however, many members are advocating within their own circles and social media networks. There is a lot of anxiety right now in the market, and speculation about how Rayo OKC will hurt the efforts of passionate soccer fans who have built the soccer culture in Oklahoma City (over the past 3-5 years).
Última edición por OKC Supporter el Mar Nov 17, 2015 5:47 pm, editado 1 vez en total
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Mar Nov 17, 2015 5:43 pm

There is speculation in the U.S. soccer message boards that Raul Martin Presa made the investment himself, personally, into Rayo OKC. In other words, Rayo Vallecano de Madrid, S.A.D. did not make the investment.

What is your understanding in Madrid? Is it believed that this is Raul Martin Presa's 100% controlled investment?

With my business experience in the U.S. I would be concerned if Raul Martin Presa made the investment himself. Does he have the rights to use Rayo Vallecano branding, logos, and marks without approval from all owners of Rayo Vallecano de Madrid, S.A.D.? I understand that a small portion of the club is still owned by Vallecas citizens (less than 5%, correct?).

In addition, Presa has alluded to the fact that Rayo Vallecano will share their experiences and intelligence in helping Rayo OKC identify and scout players (talent), and share game tactics and coaching resources. I would be concerned that Presa is using Rayo Vallecano's resources, personnel and time to help his 100% controlled investment. That doesn't make sense or seem fair to the minority owners of the club who want all investments directed to Vallecas.

I think we can all agree that to some extent, Rayo OKC poses some risk to Rayo Vallecano; even if it is indirect because the club's future success is dependent on Presa's ability to spend money on stadium enhancements and player transfers. Let's say if, emphasizing 'if,' Rayo OKC is successful, and profitable, shouldn't Rayo Vallecano (the parent organization) benefit directly and receive investment earnings? I would think so.

In time we will find out if Rayo OKC is a distraction to management in Vallecas, or requires the resources of Rayo Vallecano. If so, I could foresee continued resentment from supporters.

A U.S. attorney would probably target 'unauthorized use of trademarks' and 'negligible management,' regarding not having authorization to share confidential, proprietary information owned by Rayo Vallecano. What legal controls do minority owners have over Presa?

List of minority shareholders as of 1992: http://h.rayoherald.com/16901-los-otros ... -rayo.html
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor kosladeño » Mar Nov 17, 2015 8:53 pm

Hello OKC Supporter, Thanks a lot for joining us. We really appreciate all the information your are providing, and the time you spend with us.
Let me try to answer some of your questions with the information I have, and tell you some fact:

- Raul Martin Presa is 97% owner of Rayo Vallecano, so he and his friends in Board of Directors can do whatever they want, anytime. In the shareholders assemblies, they barely give information about their management of the club: accounts, future plans, etc. They even do not advise when and where the assemblies are going to be done (they do not say it in the official website or social networks, they only say it in a newspaper beacause the law force them).

- When Presa bought the club it had a huge debt. That debt nobody got to calculate it because of the previous owner management. Presa never wanted to say how much it was, or maybe he didn't know. Now, five years later, the situation seems to be much better, but we do not even know how much debt is paid. We know the club still have debt but we do not know how much. Presa's first year in front of the club he did not do anything because the club was judiciary intervened: Three administrators were imposed by a judge, three persons suspiciously attached to Javier Tebas (owner of Liga de Futbol Profesional), receiving from the club a disproportionate salary, specially for a bankrupt club. But It happend a miracle!: For five seasons, even with the lowest budget in La Liga, we have got to stay in La Liga, thanks to the very great work in the sport area: Felipe Miñambres (Sport Manager and Scouting Manager, he was in the club before Presa bought it), Jose Ramón Sandoval (first season coach) and Paco Jémez (Actual coach from the second season). That is certainly why Rayo Vallecano is still alive. Presa is a lucky guy!

Some examples of Presa and friends management:
- Every season begining, there is no equipment for the female team, the second team, all the youth teams, and the whole school teams. The equipment use to arrive one or two months late, so the teams usually wear the previous season equipment. Even if the equipment has a different brand. When I say equipment I mean everything: Shirts, shorts, socks, trainning wear...
- The stadium is ruined, it fails every inspections. It is really dangerous for supporters.
- The website and community management is crappy and embarrasing. They never answer supporters questions. When they show a new player, official pictures shown in media are taken in the crappiest corner of the training field (One of them with a mopping bin behind the player).
- Everytime Presa speaks to media, he spends hours to explain anything.

And probably I forget something. I hope you find this interesting. I am sorry about my english, I am often using google translator.
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor kosladeño » Mar Nov 17, 2015 9:18 pm

I forgot to tell you. The investment in Oklahoma City FC is been done by Rayo Vallecano, in the name of Rayo Vallecano, not Martin Presa. I listened Presa say this in a interview. He also said both clubs are independent. If one of them fails, the other will not be dragged.
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Re: OKC Rayo - OKC Resident

Notapor OKC Supporter » Mar Nov 17, 2015 9:27 pm

kosladeño escribió:And probably I forget something. I hope you find this interesting. I am sorry about my english, I am often using google translator.


Do not worry about typing in English. I can use a translator on my end (google translator). I appreciate your responses. Write in the language you feel most comfortable with.

That is interesting about the club, Rayo Vallecano making the direct investment. U.S. media and bloggers believe that Raul Martin Presa ('RMP') made the investment himself. I will look for other evidence in U.S. media that talks about who owns the actual investment.

Google Translator Translation:

No te preocupes por escribir en Inglés . Puedo utilizar un traductor en mi final ( el traductor de google ) . Agradezco sus respuestas .

Eso es interesante sobre el club , el Rayo Vallecano haciendo la inversión directa. Medios de comunicación estadounidenses y bloggers creen que Raúl Martín Presa ( ' RMP ' ) hizo el propio inversión. Voy a buscar otra evidencia en los medios de comunicación de Estados Unidos a las conversaciones sobre la propiedad de la inversión.
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